EP6: Q&A- Ideal Clients, Saying No, Is Kink More Expensive, Control Clients Have

Welcome to Designed for Desire, the podcast where luxury, kink, and home come together to create spaces that are anything but ordinary.

Hi, I’m Jenny, your host and the creative genius behind White Wave Design, a full-service interior design studio specializing in erotic interiors for badass soulmates. I design for the weird, the wonderful, and the unapologetically unconventional. For those who crave total freedom in the comfort and beauty of home, a place where you never have to hold back. Your home becomes a part of your foreplay. 

Because this niche doesn’t exist in mainstream design, I know you have questions, and this podcast is here to answer them. You’ll hear me switch between pronouns, plurals, and titles because the relationships I work with are as beautifully varied and expansive as the people themselves, and always between consenting adults in a healthy, loving and devoted D/s dynamic.

Whatever twists of fate, coincidences, or hidden alignments the universe set in motion, I’m so happy you're here!

Hello Wonderful Weirdo!

I normally have a script that I write and read from so I can gather my thoughts in a coherent and elegant manner. For today’s Q & A episode I am freeballing it with talking points, trying something different, because I got to thinking that if our only interaction is you listening to this podcast and then we meet over zoom or in-person it will be jarring as how I speak in the moment is very different than if I have the time to sit and take hours to write and edit what I say.

The last two words that I say to you at the end of every episode “have joy” is the perfect example of my jumpy brain-mouth connection. I was ending a hike while a couple was just getting started. What I meant to say to them was have fun and enjoy your hike but what came out of my mouth was have joy. This is now a running joke and just one of the many things I say wrong, backwards, or indecipherable. This may not ever see the light of day and I may never do it again. Let’s see how this goes.  

I love Q & A. The only downside is, that it’s a one sided conversation so I'm not answering and then you ask me a follow up question and we're back-and-forth. So I'm going to answer these questions to the best of my ability. I also don't know what the intention behind the questions are, so some of them I’ll probably have a couple answers.

Today I’m answering 4 questions about:

• Ideal clients

• Saying no

• Is kink more expensive

• Control clients have

SPOTIFY LINK for your listening pleasure APPLE LINK

WHO ARE YOUR IDEAL CLIENTS? 

When I was completely revamping my design practice into what it is now, I gave a lot of thought to who my ideal clients are, and that can always refine over time. If you’ve got your own business or design practice with your own version of ideal clients, you know this. Things change, you change, and life changes. But I knew I wanted a really solid footing when I switched. I needed to know who I was talking to. What they care about. What problems I’m solving for them. So when I was switching over, thinking about and deciding on who my ideal clients were going to be is what I spent the majority of my time figuring out.

I always go back to Seth Godin, who I’ve never met, but I view him as a mentor from afar. I love his books. I love listening to podcasts that interview him. He just has such great insight. And my favourite book is This Is Marketing- You Can’t Be Seen Unless You Learn To See. There are so many good takeaways in that book. If you have not read it I highly recommend it. He has so many good books, but that one always sticks with me.

He often talks about “people like us do things like this.” So who are the people that would connect with this? Who would want this? Smallest viable audience. Who is it for? What is if for? The change I seek to make, work that matters for people who care. It’s funny because he uses Harley-Davidson as one of his case studies. I don’t remember the exact wording, but they took a group of outsiders and made them treasured insiders within their own little tribe. He often ends interviews and books with “Go make a ruckus.” This is my version!!! Muhahaha evil laugh.

And there’s also that idea that if you’re speaking to everyone, you’re speaking to no one. So when I created this niche for myself, I had to really narrow down.

My ideal clients are ultra-high-net-worth, child-free, badass soulmates who desire a romantic lair designed to inspire intimacy and enhance pleasure within their kink, fetish, and BDSM lifestyles. That’s the most concise way I can put it. 

To afford the scale and level of design that I work on, they need to be able to afford that level of investment. Whether you choose to or have the means to do so, you can get a mortgage for the home to be built. So think about a new build. You’ve probably seen one. Picture it empty. All the cabinetry is in, the floors, the lighting, everything is there, but the house itself is empty.

There’s no furniture. No area rugs. No art. No window treatments. To fully furnish a home is not something that’s covered by a mortgage. That’s paid out of pocket. And depending on your square footage, that can be millions. The land also needs to be paid in cash.

So not only do you need millions to build the home, whether you pay outright or carry a mortgage and still make monthly payments, you also need cash on hand to actually finish it. Otherwise, it’s just an empty house. That’s where ultra-high-net-worth comes in. To do the fun, outrageous things. The “oh my gosh, where’s the wine cellar going?” The indoor hockey rink. The speakeasy with a picture window looking into a puppy playpen. Those things require money right away.

Child-free is a choice I made thinking of my ideal clients. There are design companies that only work with families with children. Some that only work with single people. These factors do eliminate people, yes, because I can’t work with everyone. Over the rest of my design career, I might work on ten to twenty homes if I’m lucky enough to live that long. So I can’t work with everyone. It’s not possible. It’s not feasible. Homes designed for people with children and homes designed for child-free are very different. Totally different lifestyles. Totally different considerations.

I don’t want an eight-person team working on fifteen projects a year, designing multiple houses that get wrapped up in a year or two. That’s not the level of personality or depth I want. I want to really get to know someone and make it literally just for them. Every house looks different. No two are the same. You won’t be looking through my portfolio thinking it’s all neutral. If that’s your thing, you do you. It’s just not mine.

The badass soulmate part just gets me. To me, badass means speaking your truth, sticking to your purpose, and exuding confidence while doing so. Not worrying about what others think of your desires or your version of success. Carving your own path and sharing your unique gifts with the world.

Soulmates was used very specifically. “Couple” or “couples” is the word most people would use, but I don’t only work with couples. I also work with throuples and poly families so using the word couple isn’t inclusive of the varied relationships. And the other reason I like soulmates is because I don’t design homes for people who aren’t committed to each other.

If you have a play partner who joins you once a month for a scene, we can design for that. That’s separate. But if you’re seeing someone new every week, or casually dating without commitment, I’m not able to design a fully custom home that’s deeply personalized for you. That kind of design requires consistency and intention.

When I picture my ideal clients, I’m imagining people with tattoos. Maybe a couple of motorcycles. They’d rather hang out at home or be out on the road. Cool introverts. You usually need one introvert and one extrovert. You can’t both be the same. One pulls you out of your shell, the other draws you back in.

Who I’m speaking to matters. This would be a very different business if I were speaking to the DIY crowd versus ultra-high-net-worth clients. It would be a different business if I were designing for families of five instead of child-free homes. Those are completely different houses to build. You have to choose.

No matter what kind of design business you run, you have to choose. Eco-friendly. Coastal chic. New York penthouses. Suburban family homes. All of these have different needs, desires, and budgets. You can’t be all of them. It muddles everything. This podcast would make no sense. My design work would make no sense. You wouldn’t know who you’re hiring or what you’re going to get.

Are you getting the sexy house with a pulley system in the living room for Shibari? Or a white and beige home suitable for five kids who all play sports? Totally different. And both are valid. But you have to choose.

Especially within kink and BDSM communities, you don’t want someone who does it all. You want someone who specializes. Someone who gets you. Someone whose website already tells you they do dark and moody. Because how comfortable are you going to feel telling a designer you walk around on all fours for puppy play with a tail anal plug if they have no context for that?

That’s why I exist. Not because you’re weird in a bad way. Weird is wonderful. But because many designers have no experience with BDSM, or their understanding of it is skewed and inaccurate.

You need someone you feel comfortable talking to. And that person might be me.

Ideal clients also let go of the reins.

When I’m in work mode, I’m in my masculine energy. I’m leading. I’m taking control. I’m having the conversations. The hard conversations. I’m moving things forward. Builders, meetings, decisions, go go go.

For this to work, you must surrender. And that’s harder for some than others. And no, it’s not only the Doms. It might be the subs. There’s uncertainty. Questions. Who’s doing what? Where are we going? All of that gets addressed when you work with me. My goal is that you never feel unsure. You know what’s happening, where the money is going, and how long things take.

But letting go is hard. The relationship between client and designer requires a huge amount of trust, regardless of whether your home is designed around pleasure and sex or not.

So you need to let me do what I do best. That’s the only way this works. My ideal clients let go of the reins. They don’t micromanage. They allow me to be my own badass. They hired me for a reason. They hired me to create this kinky dream home. And they have to let me do that.

So hopefully that answers the question of who my ideal clients are.

DO YOU EVER SAY NO TO CLIENTS?

I’m thinking there is three ways this question can be interpreted.

Potential clients, so this is still in the vetting process. If you get me, if I get you, and if we align. Everything adds up.

The other part I could see this question relating to is once clients have hired me. You sign on the dotted line. We could be six months in, we could be six years in.

And then the other side of this question could be about saying no to clients based on being “too kinky”. And again, because I don’t know who asked this question, whether it was someone in the BDSM community or someone who would consider themselves vanilla, I want to be very clear.

Kink, fetishes, and BDSM are sometimes portrayed as dark and seedy. As deviant. As people breaking laws and living in moral gray areas. And even though it’s fun to read in our favourite spicy novels that is not what I do. 

In every episode I am talking to amazingly awesome people who are in loving, healthy, devoted Dom/sub dynamics. I’m not putting anything else out there. I’m not following up on anything else. That’s not what this podcast is about.

We are about joy, love, fun, and of course, being kinky.

So I’ll answer this mostly in terms of saying no to potential clients, and saying no once we’re already working together.

Starting with potential clients. There are a few places my mind goes immediately. The design inquiry form on my website. And then the discovery phone call or Zoom to see if we’re the right fit.

If we don’t line up on how long this takes, which is forever, and you’ve heard me say that before. If we don’t line up on money, because it costs a fortune. And if we don’t line up on my design process, which I do not veer away from.

The second you start doing willy-nilly, or the client wants this or that, everything goes right off the fucking rails. And sometimes you loose the thread and can’t bring it back. That’s where everything falls apart.

The timeline gets even more bonkers. The costs go up because it takes more time. There’s a reason I do what I do. There’s a method to my madness, just like every design studio has their own way of doing things.

I’ve learned from the past, which is always your best teacher, not to veer from that.

So if potential clients can’t or won’t commit to the time it takes, the investment it takes, and the process it takes, which we have very clear conversations about, there are never money surprises, timeline surprises or process surprises.

Because that just delays trouble. And people end up upset down the road.

And the process, right? Same thing. All three things must align. We can’t have two. We can’t have one. We need all three.

So sometimes that’s a no after the very first conversation. Sometimes there’s a follow-up call if there’s another partner who couldn’t make the first one. But a lot of times, both of us know right away. And that alone eliminates clients.

I also only take on a new project every two to three years. Which is a long time to wait for my fabulousness, lol, I know, you’re devastated.

So that’s another factor. If you want your home built and ready to move into within three years, you might be waiting three years just for us to start. And then it could take another three to six years to complete. So from the moment you contact me, it can be six to nine years before your house is done. And if you’re wanting it in twelve months, that’s just a no from both of us. It’s not even possible.

I’m not going to pretend I can rush it. I’m not going to pretend I can do it for less money. I’m not going to pretend I can throw out my carefully thought-out plan and well-designed process just to get the client. Because then there are always surprises. And delays. And headaches for everyone. So we stop that before it even starts. That’s pretty much a no to potential clients.

Then once we’re actually working together, there are many conversations before you sign on the dotted line. You’ll know if I’m right for you and if you’re right for me. It’s kind of like speed dating. You just know. You feel it.

If we’ve got that vibe and we move into the design process, there are still times I say no.

I say no if you’re trying to take over or control any part of the process.

You’ve hired me and my team, and you’re paying us a fortune to make your kinky dreams come true. That’s how this works.

You don’t hire a pilot for your private plane and then sit in the cockpit pushing buttons. You choose where you’re going. They choose how to get you there. Where to stop. When to refuel.

You for sure don’t want me coming into your business and trying to run it. That would be a complete and total nightmare. Can you imagine?

So don’t fuck with mine.

That’s really what it comes down to.

Other reasons might be emailing me random design inspiration at midnight. Which I definitely won’t see until the next business day.

If it happens multiple times, we’re going to have a sit-down conversation about why you’re not comfortable letting me take the reins.

Are you worried I can’t execute your vision? Are you worried we didn’t talk enough? Are you worried you didn’t say enough?

Trust is everything. And if you feel like you can’t trust me, then I’m not the designer for you.

Or you need to let this shit go and let me do what I do best.

IS DESIGNING FOR KINK MORE EXPENSIVE? 

Is designing for kink more expensive?

Not inherently, no.

Just because you’ve hired me to design an erotic home for pleasure and sex does not automatically mean it’s more expensive. I’m assuming this question came my way because I talk often about cost, and I do that so there are no surprises.

Interior design is this really weird mystery industry. You can Google how much it costs to hire a designer. You can Google how much it costs to build a 5,000 square foot house. But what you can’t get is an accurate number. There are very many levels of interior design.

Cost is always relative. Compared to what? What are you measuring against? And building a home is a mystery. I talk about it often because I don’t want it to be a mystery.

A 2,000 square foot builder-grade home constructed in a year with preselected finishes at $850,000 is not comparable to a custom, fully furnished home at $13 million that takes three years are two very different homes. Two very different budgets. Obviously two very different clients and two very different timelines.

So no, it’s not that kink makes my designs more expensive. It’s that I only focus on luxury new construction or full-scale renovations. These are not one-room projects flipped in six months.

These take years. 

What makes it more expensive is that it’s fully custom. Every decision I make for your home, from the windows and doors to trim, paint colour, and flooring, is intentional.

I could design your ensuite bath with a claw-foot tub vs a monolithic, hand-carved rose quartz bathtub carved from a single, massive block of stone and then backlit so it glows like a gemstone. At this point, it’s less of a plumbing fixture and more functional sculpture. Pieces like this live in the same category as grand staircases, museum installations, and “we designed the house around this one object” moments.

Which brings us to weight, because this is where reality sets in. A tub like this weighs 10,000 to 20,000 pounds, and that’s before you add water, or bodies. This is not a “drop it into the primary bathroom renovation” situation. Homes that feature tubs like this are designed for them from day one, the artist for carving precision, custom plumbing, lighting, quarrying, international shipping, structural engineering, reinforced slabs, cranes, or the very real logistics and installation plans mapped out months in advance of getting a several-ton object into a finished space. When people ask why it takes so long and costs what it does, this is exactly why. One glowing stone bathtub can be a 7-figure design decision.

So the homes in general cost more. And I don’t want you to think it’s kinky, period, end of story. I’m designing the entire home for your whole life. Your everyday mornings. Your monotonous going-to-work days. Something fun happening. Hanging out in sweatpants. Getting ready in a ballgown. All of that happens in your home.

I’m not only customizing for kink. I’m customizing for your whole life.

I’m still designing the whole house for real people who have real lives who are also kinky. That is woven in. That’s why I say “More than design. This is identity.” at the end of every show.

Kink is a part of who you are. So not only do I design for kink, but I’m also customizing for everything about you.

Is designing for a lifestyle outside the “standard blueprint” more expensive?

The short answer is not inherently.The honest answer is sometimes yes, but never for the reason people assume.

There is no BDSM lifestyle surcharge. I am not behind a curtain cackling and adding mystery fees like a cartoon villain.

What does increase cost are the practical construction considerations. Reinforced ceilings and walls for suspension or restraints. Those are structural decisions, not judgment. They are about safety, longevity, and making sure your home can fully support the way you live.

Ceilings aren’t rated for the weight of a man writhing around with a suspension table hanging from them.

And just like everything in life, there are price ranges. You can buy a mass-produced flogger at a low cost and it might last six months. Or you can invest in a custom-crafted one that lasts decades. The principle is the same everywhere. Quality, materials, and craftsmanship change the investment.

Hiring a designer also automatically changes the cost. The level of projects I work on are highly personalized. Ordering retail is not part of our process. We customize for privacy. That level of detail is simply a different world than DIY.

A custom sofa costs what a custom sofa costs. There is no extra fee because your lifestyle is unconventional. Unless I add specialty hardware or structural features, it is still a sofa. A beautifully made one.

Kink is not what increases cost.

Customization, privacy, and intention do.

Your desires do not make your home more expensive.

Your home simply has to match your life.

Most homes don’t have a speakeasy with a curtain-framed picture window looking into a puppy playpen.

Because of the work I do I take every decision into consideration.

Standard door size is 30 to 36 inches wide and 6’8” tall. When you’re designing for a man who’s 6’6” and feels like he has to duck and walk sideways through every door, I’m going to customize the house plan around door heights and widths.

There may also come a day when your mum, who travels from Ireland a couple times a year, comes to live with you full time. So her bedroom suite and all doors will be specified for accessibility. She’ll be on the main floor so she can get around easily. Her space will be soundproofed, and so will yours.

These projects take years. Six to ten years by the time you’re actually done and moved in. So these are conversations we have now, not later. Because it’s a lot to change after the fact.

Her suite will connect to the dining room, kitchen, and back patio so she can get outside. And your space and her space will be on opposite sides of the house. You still need to feel connected to your partner. And also have privacy. Both now and in the future.

Or maybe right now you’re using a dining room chair or a living room chair while your submissive sits on the floor worshipping your boots.

Where are the supplies stored?

Where do you get the water?

How far are you carrying it?

Spilling a bowl of warm soapy water as you walk from the kitchen to the living room.

Are they seated on the floor with a pillow? What’s supporting their back? We’re not 20 anymore. That’s not comfortable for long sessions. I’m going to design a bootblacking chair that’s more like a throne. Comfortable for you. High enough that your boots are at seated level for someone on a stool with back support.

We can add storage and a sink. It can be a beautiful tribute to your relationship.

HOW MUCH CONTROL DO CLIENTS HAVE OVER THE DESIGN DECISIONS?

You may be asking this because you have a hard time letting go of the reins. Maybe you’re worried that the erotic home you’ve been yearning for, the one you feel is the missing puzzle piece to your soul, will turn out just like every other beige home you’ve worked with a designer before. 

Short answer: almost none. Clean my hands, done with that question. 

That one was super easy. Two words answered that question. Lol.

But if you want a little bit more info than that, it’s true. It’s almost none over design decisions, which is how the question was worded.

Design requires surrender.

Maybe you’re organizing your kitchen spices alphabetically and worried that I won’t take that into consideration, and that is keeping you up at night.

Rest assured, I will know you well enough to have the bottles all the same, to have extras because a few are going to break, because you’re going to expand your flavours, and the label maker will be set up.

This is more than planning a scene. This is more like a 24/7 dynamic. We will talk about ideas, desires, fantasies, boundaries, hard and soft limits. What you will and won’t do. This is a long-term relationship. 

You’ve gotta trust the fucking process. I’m not kidding. If you love the work I do, the kinky design magic we’ve been daydreaming about that will become reality, you need to allow me to do what I do best.

What you do have control over as a client is, first off, whether or not you even hire our team. Do we make you feel good? Do we give you the warm fuzzies? Do we get you right in the heart feels? Then you choose what you agree to and sign off on in the design agreement.

A big one you can opt in or opt out of is photography and whether I talk about your project. We can not talk about it at all. It can be fully covered under an NDA. We don’t need an NDA if it makes you feel more comfortable, we just won’t talk about your project.

Or we can photograph it and talk about it without mentioning any names. Or, if you are completely open and everyone knows about it, you want to have fun and document it, then we do that too.

So you do have a level of privacy and discretion that you choose at the very beginning.

You also have control over the budget. Of course, it’s your money that we’re spending, but only in the sense that if you were expecting $800,000 and I tell you it’s going to be $8 million, you don’t have control over the design decisions for a project that has one less zero. That makes sense. You wouldn’t be working with us, because $850,000 isn’t a budget we can achieve.

You also have control over how much of your lifestyle you share with me. There is a minimum, which we talk about, because I can’t design for you and only you if I don’t know enough about you. Those are conversations we have before you hire me, so you have informed consent around what I need from you.

There will be things you share and things you don’t share, and that’s totally understandable. But you will tell me enough about your life, your everyday life, your kinky life, what you do during the week, on weekends, on holidays, how you enjoy spending time in your home, or how you hope to spend time in your new home.

Then I take it from there.

I’m only guessing here, because I don’t know, but I’m thinking a Type A personality who always has or enjoys having control is the one who asked this, and probably doesn’t like my answer. So… sorry, not sorry. Lol.

There is a little bit of design selection you have choice over. If you really dislike the colour red, I’m not going to use red just because I think it would look cool. I don’t want to live with red either. I’ve done it before, it was overstimulating. It was beautiful, it was stunning, I’m so glad I did it, now I know I don’t like it and I’ll never do it again. So I wouldn’t force that on you either.

We’ll have a meeting for design direction and design intent. You’ll have fabrics to touch and feel, hardware, lighting, sketches. Some of it will be custom and doesn’t exist yet, so there will be ideas, inspiration, mood boards. You’ll feel the intention of where I plan to take the design.

If you touch a fabric and you’re like, nope, I don’t like how this feels on my skin, it gives me the heebie-jeebies, I know not to use it. Or if you’re like, I’m not really into that chandelier-style, what about this instead? We have those conversations.

After that meeting, I hit the ground running. Things you okayed, things you wanted to be different, those are noted. But I’m the decider. It’s like that New Girl meme where Nick is yelling Jess and Schmidt “I’m the decider.”

I’m the decider. And that’s why you hired me. And that’s why you pay me a lot of money. Because you don’t have time for it. You don’t know how to do it.

This also overlaps with saying no but I included it here. One of my biggest pet peeves, other than focal walls, is other people’s opinions. You and I may receive them even if we haven’t asked, but if you start reaching out for your friends’ or family’s thoughts on your house design or decorative touches, I will put a stop to it right away. That would be a sit-down, heart-to-heart conversation. I’m not designing the house for them!!! 

You can’t picture it to save your life. You don’t know how to pull it together. You’re spending so much money and you don’t want to fuck it up. So don’t fuck it up. Let me do my thing.

There’s a method to my madness.

If you have too much input into the design decisions, you’re not a designer. This isn’t your area of creativity. The house will become watered down and look like everyone else’s.

What I would create for you is something you have never seen. It’s not on Pinterest. It’s not in movies. Puppy footprints hidden throughout your home and playroom. A human-sized dog wash station with a post to hold the leash. It doesn’t exist anywhere.

If you have too much input, the only things you can give me are things you’ve already seen someone else do, and then we end up with a house you could have built with any designer, and it definitely won’t have your flair. And then there’s no reason for us to work together.

It muddies the water. It takes away from everything you said you wanted and dreamed of. I’m creating you a magical world that does not yet exist. Like when Walt Disney decided to build Disney World. I don’t think his team was sourcing from Pinterest.

Anything great and amazing comes from imagination, not sameness.

There are multiple reasons why you have limited control. You would be so overwhelmed and unable to make decisions. For a single set of drapery, there are hundreds of decisions. Fabric, liner, stitching, fullness, pleat style, hem weight, trim, how it stacks, how it moves, how it sounds when it opens and closes. Curtain rail, finish, profile, whether it disappears or becomes a feature. Mounting height, wall structure, ceiling structure, clearances, return depth. Hardware weight, load capacity, and how it gets installed so it doesn’t rip out of the wall. Light control, privacy, insulation, acoustics. How it looks at noon. How it looks at midnight. How it feels when you brush past it naked. And that’s one window. And you’re not a designer. 

I know nothing about sports. I’m not going to come into your job and pretend I know how to be a sports agent and send you stats. I don’t even know what I would send you. But I’m not going to pretend to do your job after I’ve hired you to do it.

So let me do my job. Trust the process.

It might not make sense right now, but it will years down the road when you see it all together and say, “Ahhh, okay. I get it now.” It’s just a very long road to get there.

This is the last episode of 2025. However you celebrate the holidays and ring in the New Year I’m wishing you a naughty finish and a weird and wonderful chapter ahead. May someone tall, tattooed, commanding or obedient make it even more memorable.

More than design. This is identity.

My intention for this episode was for you to know that you’re not alone. To feel seen, heard, and understood. To know that your desires are valid, and that a home designed to enhance your sex life is not only possible, it’s waiting for you.

Maybe you laughed. Maybe a memory tugged at your heartstrings. Maybe you had an aha moment, or whispered, “she gets me.”

If you feel that working with the White Wave Design team is for you, please visit our Design Inquiry page.

Thank you for spending this time with me and for allowing me to be part of your journey. Until next time… have joy.

Jenny 💀